By Ryan
Sparks
The
Progressive rock genre is one which music fans seem to either
have a love / hate relationship with. This subgenre of rock
which largely began in England in the late 60’s (one could even
argue that The Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper was one of the earliest
examples of the new art form), was almost single handedly
responsible for introducing the phrase ‘concept album’ into
rock’s vernacular. Progressive rock really began to flourish as
the 60’s gave way to the 70’s, as more and more bands
experimented with ways to push the standard three minute song
structure of the 60’s out into side long artistic statements. As
Prog rock began to flourish throughout the 70’s a handful of
highly revered and influential bands such as Yes, Pink Floyd,
King Crimson and ELP emerged from the pack and went on to
epitomize the genre. Gentle Giant was also one of those bands.
The seeds
for Gentle Giant were sown in Portsmouth England by three
multi-instrumentalist brothers Derek, Ray and Phil Shulman after
they became disillusioned with the direction their previous band
Simon Dupree and The Big Sound was taking. After the trio
enlisted two other multi-instrumentalists in Gary Green and the
classically trained Kerry Minnear the core of the bands lineup
was set for the next ten years. From 1970-1980 the band released
eleven, diverse and complex sounding studio albums that fused
elements of classical and medieval music with rock and jazz. One
distinct element which separated Gentle Giant from their
contemporaries was their unique ability to utilize a variety of
different counterpoint vocal techniques. Not to mention the
booming voice of lead singer Derek was the perfect contrast to
Kerry’s softer and more delicate delivery.
While
Gentle Giant has been silent now for going on thirty years, and
they have refused the temptation to get back together to revisit
past glories, there has been some activity of late. In 2008
guitarist Gary Green put together a tribute band called Rental
Giant consisting of former Giant drummer Malcolm Mortimore and
three other musicians, which became known as Three Friends once
Minnear came onboard. After performing a handful of gigs with
Three Friends Kerry decided to step down out of respect for the
feelings of the Shulman brothers who have reportedly been
unhappy with the whole situation. There clearly seems to be some
division within the ranks, even though Green presently seems
intent on continuing with the tribute by honoring commitments
for 2010. On another front the bands catalogue is finally
becoming available in the digital format for the first time, and
next year will also see the group release the remastered CD
versions complete with added bonus tracks.
Interviews
with Kerry Minnear over the years seem to have been few and far
between, so it was a real pleasure to get to speak to him via
telephone as he was attending the annual GORGG (Global On
Reflection Giant Gathering) in Norwalk Connecticut .We talked
about the new remastered recordings, his thoughts on Gentle
Giant’s past achievements, as well as his decision to leave
Three Friends.
Note: At
times when I played back our conversation I had to really strain
to hear Kerry’s responses because he’s a very soft spoken
individual, so I must offer a kind word of thanks to Kerry’s
wife Lesley who arranged for Kerry to read the finished
transcription and provide his stamp of approval, in order to
avoid any confusion. Last but certainly not least, a special
thanks to Anne Leighton for setting it all up.
Ryan: A
good portion of the band’s catalogue is going to be available
digitally for the first time beginning in November which is
great news. Why has it taken so long to make these albums
available in the digital format, was there any red tape holding
things back?
Kerry:
We’ve only just had them revert back to us, that’s the reason
for the delay. I suppose that because we don’t get together very
often to talk these things over, that they may have been
available earlier, before we actually got ‘round to doing
anything. They won’t ever revert back to us in the U.K because
the law is different over there, but over here they revert back
after twenty or twenty five years. Upon that happening, Ray and
Derek being more sharp than I, must have thought that it would
be a good thing to try and get a major distributor interested in
our back catalogue. I think there is a degree of reputation
still attached to the band, and the fact that it seems to have a
longevity that is slightly inexplicable. I think they fished
around, got some interest and had more than one to choose from.
EMI were most obliging I think. Little did we know what we were
letting ourselves in for really [laughing]. It’s a lot of work.
Ryan: The
digital releases are special in that each album contains bonus
material as well as some new music of sorts. Tell me a bit about
that.
Kerry: Some
of the bonus material has been available on various CD’s that
have been sort of periodically available, but nothing has been
available en-masse. The idea now is that it will be permanently
available to all people, at all times. I’ve rearranged a couple
of the intro tapes that we had, those will be brand new. So
there will be brand new material to download, and no doubt there
will be some other new stuff that will be filtered out in the
future. At the moment most of it has appeared on CD somewhere at
some point. If only Ray were here [laughing]. He’s been very
much involved in all of this because he’s our technical man.
Ryan: What
does it feel like when you go back and listen to each one of
these albums? When you listen to the music today does it take
you back to a specific moment in the creative process?
Kerry: It
does yes. Obviously it’s a combination of things, nostalgia has
got to be part of what you feel because it was a very precious
time of life. Probably the most creative period of life that
I’ve ever had, where I was employed to create music, so I did
it. Whereas now when I do the other things that I do, I teach
and write, and I’ve done some work for T.V. , but it’s so
different than being just given carte blanche to write what you
like, and be paid to do it. Whenever I listen back to the songs
I do understand to some degree the freshness of it even today,
and it does have a nostalgic twist to it as well, because you
remember certain incidents that happened in the studio when you
were recording it. So yeah there’s a lot of memories mixed in
with it, but mostly what I think gets me is the intrigue, and
the fact that although there are one or two bits I wish we had
done differently; the majority of it you’re just totally happy
with it. You can see what we were trying to achieve, even though
it was so diverse.
Ryan: It
was diverse. Quite a bit of music that was in the
progressive rock vein, when you listen back to it today it
sounds rather dated but I don’t find this is the case with
Gentle Giant. That’s the impression I get when I listen to the
music today.
Kerry: I
think you’re right Ryan and I think that is the one thing that
is probably the most gratifying more than anything else. Because
it was all unwitting, it’s not as though we were aware of
anything that we were trying to achieve, certainly not in terms
of longevity or anything like that. We were just a bunch of
insolated musicians who tended to borrow entirely from our own
influences, and we introduced all those different elements into
what we did both musically and emotionally to our fullest
capacity. It’s as you said, because even my kids like it
[laughing]
Ryan: I
think that speaks largely to the reason why Gentle Giants music
has appealed to so many people. You guys were not concerned with
outside influences, you were an insular band yes, but I think
this definitely played in your favor.
Kerry: Yeah
I think so. It was partly to do with our time schedule, which
kept us from having a lot of time to listen to other people.
Geographically as well we were placed on the south coast of
England in a fairly poor, dockside town called Portsmouth which
wasn’t highly cultured [laughs]. So we just went home after a
tour and we would write, then we would record, tour, write,
record, tour. There weren’t really a lot of opportunities to
keep an eye on what other people were doing.
Ryan: Also
compared to some bands of the same time period that were
spending six months working on an album, you guys were putting
out an album every six months.
Kerry: Yeah
it was less than a year on average.
Ryan: This
wasn’t uncommon at the time for bands to release more than one
album in a year. You were constantly busy.
Kerry:
That’s right. It’s a very lonely job. I can remember, and I
still experience it now as I seek in some way to provide further
entertainment for people. Sometimes you don’t feel like doing
it, and if you don’t have to do it then chances are you won’t.
Whereas if you know you have contractual obligations, that’s
something that I miss, that sort of obligatory demand. That
feeling of I must stay in the room until I’ve got something
[laughing].
Ryan:
Alucard Music is a company that was set up by you and your wife
to sell Gentle Giant and Gentle Giant related releases directly
to the fans.
Kerry: It
was actually originally created during the time of the band to
handle the publishing and royalty side of all our releases. At
the time there were no other bands involved. It was setup by
Derek really and he’s always been our business wing [laughs].
Then when the band disbanded and it became clear there was a
need for somebody to take charge of the dribs and drabs, or
royalties that were coming in, to distribute them and so on, at
that point my wife Lesley very kindly picked it up. The rest of
the band trusted her with it and it’s been a satisfactory
arrangement ever since.
Ryan: Next
year marks the fortieth anniversary of the first Gentle Giant
album.
Kerry: Does
it really? I hadn’t thought of that [laughing]
Ryan: In
addition to the remastered CD’s there are a few other special
things in store as well is that right?
Kerry: Well
I’m aware that the master tapes are being remastered, that is
something that is going on almost at this very moment. Because
we’ve got our hands on the original master tapes we can do a
proper job of remastering. There will be some… what’s the word?
Vinyl that’s it [laughing]
Ryan: C’mon
Kerry you remember vinyl don’t you? [laughing]
Kerry: It’s
amazing what’s escaping these little gray cells [laughing]
Ryan: I
think you may have already answered my question, because I was
going to ask you how these new remasters compare to the ones
that were done by DRT back in 2005.
Kerry:
You’re cynically wondering what’s happening [laughs]. You’re
obviously not the first one to have mentioned that, but the
securing of the master tapes is the difference. We do hope
personally to take an interest and at some point to be able to
give our input, as members of the band will be given test copies
and we’ll maybe have some alternatives to choose from. I hope so
because I think there’s more involved than just hoping its going
to come out and be good.
Ryan: As
far as some of the archived bonus material that has appeared on
these releases over the years, how has that been handled, does
everyone have a sort of equal vote when it comes to deciding
what material to use?
Kerry:
There’s a filtering process, because as I’m sure you’re aware
there is quite a lot of material on bootlegs and the rest of it.
Some of it is intriguing just because it might be a unique
recording of an event, but it just doesn’t hold up technically
to being printed. That side of things has been somewhat dealt
with by Voiceprint in the U.K. and they’re quite happy to put
those things out. But we’ve had to distance ourselves from that;
we know that in some ways they can be intriguing to us, and we
have on occasion done that. The majority of stuff that we’ve
been able to release in the later years has gone through the
filtering process, by first of all being offered to one of us in
the band, and then normally it’s our friend Ray who’s the
technician ,he cleans things up and so on. So there is a
filtering process that goes on to decide whether it’s worthwhile
and a valid addition to the repertoire. We do hope that as a
company that we’ve managed to make everything as good as
possible and that we’re not just reissuing things for the sake
of it.
Ryan: It’s
in keeping with Gentle Giant’s ethos and what the band was all
about in the first place.
Kerry: Yeah
we’ve very conscious of that. Really the whole point of these
reissues is to try and attract new listeners, not to get the
people who have already got all their copies, and to make them
download it and pay for it again. It’s really just a change, and
we’re hoping to invite new people to dip in and perhaps find
some enjoyment in it.
Ryan: To
get their feet wet on Gentle Giant’s music.
Kerry:
That’s right yeah. It’s still difficult for me to get my head
around the way the world works now. I was just talking to
someone the other day, that in the old days you’d buy a vinyl
album, take it home and even if you didn’t like it the first
time, you’d keep it because it was the only album you were going
to buy for a couple of weeks. You carried on listening to it and
you grew to like it. Nowadays it so much easier to just move on
if you don’t like something, you can click a button and try
something else.
Ryan: The
way music is presented these days, it just seems a more
disposable, which I think is a shame.
Kerry:
Right and I suppose from the industry’s point of view it needs
to be fairly immediate, before they can in any way justify the
expense.
Ryan: To
the best of your knowledge is there still a fair amount of
unreleased material sitting in the vaults?
Kerry: Not
really. I would say that we are quite close to the end. As you
know Scraping The Barrel came out, which was
appropriately named [laughs]. I believe that was a very valid
release in that it gave people that already knew the music an
opportunity to see some of the history of how it was created, as
well as some obscure little bits that never did get released and
so on. Having said that there was this Swedish radio station
that came out of the blue last year; a chap phoned us up and
said he’d obtained this Swedish concert from such and such a
date, and that he was going to release through his company. He
asked for our permission. Although we would have rather that he
had sold us the masters so that we could do it, but we obviously
didn’t have the ownership, and he’d paid his dues with the
Swedish company. That has just come out and that was quite an
interesting concert (ed: the disc Kerry is referring to is
called Live In Stockholm ’75 produced by Major League
Productions, but available through (www.gentlegiantmusic.com)
Ryan: As
far as I’m concerned one of the key ingredients that played a
big part in the overall sound of the group was the difference in
vocal style between Derek and yourself. Your voice has this
magnificent and very distinctive, quiet and soothing quality to
it. I was surprised to learn that you weren’t comfortable
singing live.
Kerry: That
is absolutely true Ryan. People keep saying I have a nice voice
and in a way I suppose I do see what they mean, but I’ve always
felt that it was a bit weak. It’s not a gritty voice or a rock
‘n roll voice, so it’s only useful every now and then. I tended
to take the almost puritanical parts of the tenor, or sort of
counter tenor almost, in the live shows. It was great to have
the contrasting voice of Derek because you could have these
contrasting emotions within the same song, and know that you had
the support to cover it. I was always a bit nervous and still am
singing into the mic.
Ryan: So it
was about trying to get over your fears about singing in a live
setting?
Kerry:
Yeah. I’m always a bit of a PA man’s nightmare. I’m quite good
at keeping close to the mic but I suppose I still don’t manage
to give them enough level. I think the more you do it obviously
the better you get, and the fact that I’ve had to do a little
bit with Three Friends has helped me. Other than to speak I
literally don’t use my voice for weeks. I’ve also lost a lot of
the range that I had when I was younger. But that’s the reason
why I never sang live. I think we always managed to orchestrate
the pieces though so that Derek could manage it.
Ryan: Was
there ever a problem recording your parts in the studio, would
you get it down in a few takes or did you have to work at it?
Kerry: It
was quite easy in the studio or reasonably easy, because most of
what I did tended to do was reasonably soft, so I wasn’t forcing
my voice. Ray was producing us a lot and he was quite good at
coaxing you in the right way to get a good take. As far as pitch
wise and what you can do in the studio, I think I was made quite
comfortable as far as what I could hear, and I was able to get
it in tune fairly quickly. I don t remember any lengthy you know
“C’mon for heaven’s sake” or that kind of stuff [laughs].
Although that did happen with some of my keyboard parts I have
to admit [laughs]. Vocally though I don’t remember any problems.
They would give me these unusual microphones because of the
qualities and sound of my voice. It needed this sparkly presence
of an AKG451, which was one that I remember that came out on
several occasions. It was this delicate condenser microphone
that wouldn’t be appropriate for anyone who was shouting, but
for someone like me it brought out all the presence.
Ryan: What
was also unique about the band was that as grand as the
compositions were there was never a question of whether the band
would be able to recreate them live. What you were doing with
the switching of the instruments back and forth was not
something you saw a lot of at the time and really haven’t seen
since.
Kerry: Yeah
maybe no t in the same area of instruments. It was again just a
fluke really and a combination of people’s history and what they
had up their sleeves. It was almost like at the beginning of the
band we all chucked our experience in a hat, and Ray and I would
sort of write with bits of that in mind. The advantage obviously
when you compose your own stuff is that you can compose a part
for your instrument that you can manage [laughs]. For me on the
cello for instance, there’s quite a few open strings featured,
but you tried to make it as easy for yourself as you could, and
yet make it effective as well. For instance John Weathers as far
as I know had never played tuned percussion until he started
learning the parts for “On Reflection” or whatever it was where
he played the vibes. There was always time to learn the specific
parts and we never took on anything too demanding. Ray was also
a good violinist so that was a nice addition to have.
Ryan: When
I spoke to Derek back around the time of the thirty fifth
anniversary remasters back in 2005 he mentioned doing an in
store appearance with you in New York and being surprised at the
number of people that showed up. Are you amazed that the band’s
music has touched and continues to touch new fans still to this
day even after forty years?
Kerry: I am
bemused by it, and a little intimidated [laughs]. Especially in
terms of future effort, because I don’t fully understand what
the elements were that people find so precious. I acknowledge
that they do, and I love that people do, and I do too. But what
the elements were and how to continue as it were to bless people
with this stuff, that kind of weighs a bit heavy on me, because
as you can imagine it’s been a long break. If you do not fully
understand why it did touch people, then it’s really hard to
know how to recreate or continue that.
Ryan: When
you say you’re intimidated is that because you feel there is
that expectation to create new music?
Kerry: I
think I do. I think there’s something in me that would love to
continue, because there’s nothing more rewarding than knowing
that you’ve moved people, or touched them or whatever. If
there’s a reason for you having a gift that’s the one, so you
want to go on and develop that further, and to be involved in
music that does that, I
think is every musicians dream. I certainly still have it now
even though it’s been such a long time since I’ve successfully
as it were, put a pen to paper or sang into a microphone. Having
said all of that I am hopeful. I’ve been talking recently with
Ray, who I worked with on all the Gentle Giant stuff, and I know
that although he’s been very busy making DVD’s for Genesis,
compiling and editing their box sets, I think he’s getting to
the point where he’d really love to do something creative again
himself. Whether we’ll be able to see that through; I’m
certainly excited about it and we intend to launch into
something quite soon. I think that might be part of the antidote
to help me to get through this expectancy; just to get involved
with somebody else, and to enjoy doing it without necessarily
thinking about the heritage of what’s behind it. We’ve all moved
on in new areas, but I still think the same harmonies with the
same rhythms do the same job.
Ryan:
Speaking of expectations, the way the music industry is today
where the artist is able to be much more accessible to the fans,
do you think that if Gentle Giant was just starting out today
that this is something that everyone including yourself would be
comfortable with?
Kerry: You
mean being more exposed?
Ryan: Yes
it seems like that with the advent of the internet and things
like myspace and facebook it brings people closer together, it’s
not like when you were making music back in the 70’s, nowadays
its more…
Kerry:
Public.
Ryan:
Right. You mentioned the band was very isolated, so I’m
wondering that if you were starting out today, if this would be
something you’d embrace and be comfortable with.
Kerry: It’s
a good question. You almost need to have someone handling your
web stuff for you; I’d imagine that’s how bands do it. I suppose
it would have changed the band a bit, but I still think that the
job of actual creation is still quite a lonely one, and it’s not
particularly helped by distractions of anything really,
especially if it’s pleasurable in any way [laughs]. So there’s a
degree of discipline that we have had to apply to what we do,
you have to isolate yourself to some degree in order to, as we
were saying earlier, to come up with something that is unique.
The other thing is I don’t think we would be able to do today
what we did back then.
Ryan: You
mean just in terms of how the music climate is today?
Kerry: That
and the way the finances work. We were so blessed that Simon
Dupree had had some success before they formed Gentle Giant. The
management of the previous band allowed us to go in and write
and prepare the first album for eight months, with no obligatory
sense of…other than the fact that they wanted to know that we
were progressing obviously. They were happy with that kind of
time span and that is unthinkable now, that somebody would put
up that kind of money in order to get something off the ground.
Ryan: It
must have been great to be left alone to create without having
someone looking over your shoulder.
Kerry: They
did come down to Portsmouth from London. One of them was
allocated to come down, and he was the one who came up with the
name Gentle Giant by the way. He came down and he said that
because the music was so diverse, that Gentle Giant would be a
good name. We all thought that Giant was a better name, but he
got his way and we became Gentle Giant.
Ryan: And
the rest is history.
Kerry:
Right. He probably came down maybe three times in the whole
eight month period just to make sure we were working [laughs].
It is unthinkable though isn’t it? That somebody would do that.
It was a special time.
Ryan:
You’re classically trained. Growing up as a boy in England what
pieces of music do you think made the biggest impression on you
that set you down the path of becoming a professional musician?
Kerry: I
wouldn’t know if there was one piece in particular that did the
job of saying “Right this is what I want to do”. One of the
things that made me want to take part, was that when I was a
school boy I was a timpanist, you know the kettle drum player at
the back of the orchestra. I did that to begin with for my
school orchestra, then the County orchestra, then the Schools of
Great Britain orchestra, and finally the National Youth
Orchestra which I managed to get into as a percussionist and not
as the timpani player . I think that being involved in
orchestral music, having to count a lot of bars, and listening
to a lot of music to see how it was put together was very
helpful for me. It made me appreciate the whole arrangement
thing and how a theme can be made to be really effective,
counting the bars and waiting for the big entry to make it all
work. I used to love that. “Danse Macabre” by
Saint-Saëns
was the very first piece of classical music that drew me in
really, it was an old vinyl recording of that with a violinist
with a lovely wide vibrato. That was one of the first pieces.
Then there were all the usual dramatic pieces. I loved
Tchaikovsky and still do. A composer called Ralph Vaughan
Williams, an English writer; has always been very precious to
me. He’s written very pastoral English music, and that’s one
type of music that always gets me. If it has a rich harmony and
a pastoral feel to it, it takes you off to a beautiful world
full of valleys and trees. Also a piece called “Fantasia on a
Theme by Thomas Tallis” is one of my all time favorites.
Ryan: How
then did you get waylaid into playing progressive rock, did you
see this style of music as a way to inject some of your
classical background into what was a relatively new genre of
music at the time?
Kerry: I
suppose I wasn’t really aware of what kind of period I was in,
in the sense that I’d not been particularly – although the first
band that I ever saw live was King Crimson which was in the
days of 21st Century Schizoid Man, I was still at the
Academy at that time. I remember seeing Pink Floyd play a small
gig over a pub in Ealing. I left early ‘cause it was too loud
for me [laughing]. Those are my early recollections and exposure
to amplified music. Joining this particular band I knew that
they had come from a soul background and I knew that I had all
this early music that I was very fond of, such as the orchestral
stuff that I had been exposed to at the academy. I had also
thoroughly enjoyed jazz as had they, so there was a mutual
interest in every type of music, amongst every member of the
band. We weren’t trying to do anything in the sense of “I know
what we can do, we can do this type of music”, nor did we have a
mission to tempt people to listen to classical music; I don’t
think we had the brains for that [laughs]. It wasn’t
intentional, there was a lovely freedom and the instruments that
we were using allowed us to do it as well. To dig out
instruments like recorders was just a bit more fun really.
Ryan: Last
question for you. This year saw you performing with Three
Friends as you mentioned. While I won’t ask you to get into the
personal reasons for your departure I would like to ask you
about the experience I general, because I think the feelings
among the fans was that it was a truly magical thing to see you
up onstage singing some of these songs again. I’ve seen a few
clips of you signing “Think of Me With Kindness” and your
performances sounded amazing.
Kerry:
That’s lovely thank you. I have enjoyed it. It was a bit tricky
trying to rehearse. We had very minimal rehearsals and as you
know the music isn’t particularly instinctive [laughs].
Especially since they were working with a keyboard player
already, a lovely chap named John Donaldson, who has been
learning stuff by ear and very cleverly I must say. We were just
working out what he would provide and what I would provide and
so on. We had about three days to rehearse together before our
first gig. The singer who came in Mick Wilson, wasn’t really a
fan beforehand, so he was
being introduced to the music for the first time as we were
rehearsing, but he’s done well. So it was a little shaky as you
could imagine but it got better and stronger, so the music
became more enjoyable as we went along. I don’t mind you asking
me the personal reasons, it’s just that the other writers in
Gentle Giant have not been particularly enthusiastic about the
idea of a tribute band coming up out of nowhere, and as they
weren’t involved in the conception of it in any way, they’ve
just been a bit uncomfortable with it. As I’m very fond of them,
as we all did the work together, just out of respect for how
they feel I just felt it would be better and better for myself
as well if I’m going to be doing some writing with Ray. If
they’re not comfortable with it then I certainly don’t want to
make them feel uncomfortable. I’m really confident that the band
can do it well and I understand that it would be appreciated if
I was there, but I know they’ll make a good job of it. If I’m
going to be working with Ray it’s important that I’m able to
give my full concentration to that, it’s a time thing really. If
you’re in the middle of progressing something and then you have
to start thinking about being on the other side of the world at
a moment’s notice, which could be quite intrusive. So I think
it’s the right thing to do and whether it’s a permanent, long
distance state of affairs is entirely in the lap of how things
pan out really. Creating new music with Ray
is probably a good thing to do at this juncture of my
life ‘cause I’m getting on a bit you know, and there’s a limit
as to how much you can take on [laughs].
Visit Gentle Giant Online
