By Jeb
Wright
Def Leppard,
Poison and Cheap Trick will be hitting the arena circuit this
summer, playing to capacity crowds and blasting hit-after-hit
into the night air. For Def Lep guitarist Phil Collen, this is
nothing new, as the blonde-haired ax-man has been touring the
world since he joined the band, around the time the classic
Pyromania was released. Still, Collen is not tired of
cranking up his amp and thrilling crowds. He is so into music
at this stage in his life that he has started another band,
titled Man Raze, with ex-Girl band mate Simon Laffy, and Sex
Pistols drummer Paul Cook.
In this
interview, Collen admits to being a fan of Bret Michaels reality
show Rock of Love and agrees that Bret picked the wrong
girl, once again. We discuss the upcoming summer tour, as well
as Phil’s new band, Man Raze, his current band, Def Leppard and
his old band, Girl. During our chat we talk about guitars he
has designed and how he came to play with a metal pick.
Surprisingly, as we spoke, Phil admitted that he is not as
accomplished of a guitarist as some might think, preferring to
“make it scream” rather than impress with finger picking.
Phil has
been a great friend to Classic Rock Revisited over the years.
An interview with him has the aura of sitting down with a good
friend on a Sunday morning over orange juice and a bagel. More
than just an interview, this is a conversation with one of the
most down to earth rock stars on the planet. We salute Phil
Collen on all he does and wish him nothing but success.
Jeb: Def
Leppard, Poison and Cheap Trick are quite a lineup for a summer
tour.
Phil: You
know who John Kolodner is [Editor’s note: John Kolodner is a
world famous A/R man from Geffen Records]? He said we should
tour with Poison. He said that we are different enough that we
will bring a lot of each other’s audience to the show. I think
he is right and that we should have done this year’s ago. It is
working because tickets are flying out the window.
Jeb: In
terms of greed, Def Leppard does not have to go out on the road
with anyone. Why go out on a triple bill?
Phil: It is
really cool to play in front of full audiences. The one thing
we have learned is that you also open peoples’ eyes when you
tour with people who have fans that may have never come to a Def
Leppard show. I think that especially happened with Styx, as
they have many fans that would have never seen a Def Leppard
show, and vice versa. Back in the 70's, I think people would
really give a diverse bill a chance and really enjoy it. This
isn’t even that diverse as we are all rock bands.
I am really
excited about this tour and I really am looking forward to
seeing how it goes. Cheap Trick, we have played with a bunch of
times. On the last leg of the last tour, on the last couple of
gigs, in Australia, we played with Cheap Trick. We have played
with them for years and we are huge, huge fans.
Jeb: Cheap
Trick does not come close to getting the credit they deserve for
influencing a ton of bands.
Phil: Me
too. I really could never figure that out. It was like, “Fuck,
what is the deal with this? They should have been massive.”
Well, they were massive at one time, but I think they should
have been a household name.
Jeb: From
Def Leppard to Smashing Pumpkins to a lot of newer pop/rock
bands, Cheap Trick is mentioned as an influence. The only bad
thing about the opening slot they have is that they won’t be
able to play long enough for me.
Phil: That
is true. It will be cool. I think it will actually be good
because they will have to just cram all the songs in. There
will be no dead space. It will be bang, bang, bang, hit after
hit.
Jeb: It has
to be strange for Poison to let you close. I can’t remember
ever seeing that band open for someone. I guess this is a
co-headline thing . . .
Phil: No it
is not. We are closing it. We are the headliner and we will
close every night.
Jeb: When
did you decide Poison was the band to take out on the road?
Phil:
Whenever you go on tour, there is a list of bands that
management brings to you. They show you the list and say,
“These guys are available and these guys aren’t.” We always ask
about this guy, or that guy. The list is always a lot shorter
than you think it is going to be. Bands have other things to do
like record albums, or they go on tour outside of the country.
Poison came up and we said, “That is a perfect fit. Let’s go.”
After they got that done, it came up to add a third act.
Originally, we were going to do a Man Raze thing but, as it
turns out, we are going to be doing something else.
Jeb: Man
that would have been cool. It would have been extra work for
you.
Phil: It
would have been cool but I would have been fucking exhausted.
Man Raze has some good news. We just got added to the Download
Festival in Donnington, England. Def Leppard is headlining the
set on Sunday and Man Raze plays Saturday afternoon.
We did some
gigs in December, but we never got the album out there. The
distribution company went under the day the album came out. We
managed to get something on the go and it finally gets released
in England, the week of the Download Festival, so that is going
to be great.
Jeb:
Awesome news about Donnington but that is terrible news about
the distribution company.
Phil: I
know, but it has all worked out pretty good. Sunday night is
going to be a great night of music. It is Journey, ZZ Top,
Whitesnake and then Def Leppard, so that is going to be really
cool.
Jeb: Has
Man Raze been sitting back waiting or have you continued writing
music?
Phil: We
have about fifteen songs ready to go. We just don’t think our
first album has had a fair crack. It came out here, but we
weren’t able to promote it. We are going to be playing a lot in
Europe. We have a show in Dublin, as a warm up, the next night,
we have a Def Leppard show, and then we have Donnington. I will
have four nights in a row, playing in two different bands.
Jeb: I have
heard rumblings that after this touring Def Leppard may take
some time off and write an album?
Phil: Yes
and no. Gone are the days when you take this big old, bloated,
self-indulgent writing period. I don’t think we should do
that. I think we should be writing on the tour. We are going
to be bringing out the Sparkle Lounge on this tour, and even if
we only get one or two songs, it is really important because it
means you have started the album.
The big
problem Def Leppard has is the same problem that a lot of the
great bands of the 1970's had, like Bad Company, and Led
Zeppelin, and that is that they would come off the road and
start writing. They would take huge amounts of time off to
write and it was really self-indulgent, self-important and
boring. I think that is why the Punk movement came in, because
things got so dull. We have been guilty of that in the past.
When we did the Sparkle Lounge album, we started writing
and getting the ideas together while we were on the road. Doing
that eliminates nine months of studio time.
Jeb: I
thought that was a unique album as it was Def Leppard without
sounding overproduced. I don’t mean that in a bad way but you
are known for being overproduced.
Phil: There
was some different ideas on it. “Nine Lives” was started on
tour and there was some excitement. I can actually remember
playing the guitar riff that ended up on the album while Journey
was playing in the background on stage. I like the idea of
creating on the road.
Jeb: You
can’t help but get a fever to play live when you play in a cool
atmosphere, whether on a triple bill, or at places like The
Moondance Jam in Minnesota.
Phil: It is
lovely. The bands have a real kind of vibe when you do those
things and you are bumping into other bands. It is inspiring.
Jeb: Since
Poison is on the tour; I have to ask if anyone in Def Leppard
was into Rock of Love?
Phil: I
love watching it. I have no clue if anyone else in the band has
seen it.
Jeb: My
wife and I got hooked on it. It is so silly but you can’t help
it.
Phil: That
is what reality television is all about. I did some interviews
with Bret Michaels when we announced the tour. What is
interesting is that he said the show stopped being about him a
long time ago. He is correct. He steps in, but then steps out
and lets the girls just self-destruct, or do whatever they are
going to do. Having said that, he got really quite good at
being that kind of host. I did notice that, and I was impressed
with that side of him. It is a big fucking deal to be able to
pull that sort of thing off. For any kind of show to actually
appear human is an achievement. You have to give hats off to
him.
Jeb: Bret
is like you. He is real on or off camera. He is not putting on
any persona. The Bret Michaels you see on camera is not that
much different than the Bret Michaels you see off camera.
Phil:
Absolutely. I totally agree with you. It really brings another
element into the tour. It is not just about Poison being on the
tour. We also have this guy who is a famous television host on
tour with us.
Jeb: I
think he picked the wrong girl.
Phil: I do
as well, actually.
Jeb: With
this tour, my only complaint is that you are probably relegated
to a shorter set list. Maybe a an hour and a half?
Phil: That
is it; it is all you can do. If we do anymore than that then
you start running into problems with people being able to get to
the venue on time, or people being able to get home on time so
they can get up for work the next day. You have to just cram it
all in there and really create a huge bang for the buck. There
is less experimenting than when you do An Evening With Def
Leppard. We will probably do a longer tour when we are
promoting the new album and then you will get all you can
handle.
Jeb: The
last couple of tours I have loved seeing you guys bring out
“Mirror, Mirror.” I am sure that is probably getting removed
from the set this time out but it was so exciting to see you
play that song. Will you replace it with another fan favorite
that people might not expect?
Phil: That
song is probably going to get axed. There will be something
else put in it’s place. When you have three bands on, then you
can’t get indulgent. People have a short attention span, I know
I do. I go, “Fuck this is boring.” You have to really cater to
that, especially with younger audiences, which are coming out to
see us more and more.
“Mirror,
Mirror” is a good song. I really enjoyed playing it. I really
would like to play some more off of the High N Dry album,
as it is a really rocking album. I think I got a credit on
there. I think I borrowed an amplifier or something. We do
have some big news. We have a reissued Pyromania and
Adrenalize coming out this summer. We are releasing a live
CD with Steve Clark on it from the LA Forum in 1983. The live
CD will be in the live Pyromania reissue.
Jeb: Are
you talking a couple of cuts or an entire bonus live disc?
Phil: It
will be a bonus disk, it is a whole live album. We have never
done a live album before and we always are hearing people say,
“When are you going to put out a live album,” so there you go.
It is from 1983. I listen to it and I go, “Fuck, we are so much
better than that now.” Although, it was really exciting back
then, and the live disc really captures that. It is really
valid. We do it ten times better than that now, but we were
just a bunch of kids, who had no idea what we were doing, and it
really captures that. It has Steve on it, God bless him. It
was his birthday the other day . . .
Jeb: I am
certain that I saw that tour. Uriah Help was opening for you.
If I remember right, Def Leppard was closing with “Traveling
Band” from CRR.
Phil: We
were, and I think that is on there. That is the tour.
Jeb: You
really hit on something. I am the “Classic Rock Guy” for
everyone who knows me. I tell people all the time about bands
who are coming and people go, “Oh they are older now and I don’t
know about going to see them.” I tell them they are totally
wrong. You guys have concentrated on your craft and you are
much better live bands. You have the wild life out of your
system and you are much better players.
Phil: I
think if you can get through all of that, then all of a sudden,
you, by virtue of experience, get better. I think the fact that
we have been around for a while, and the fact that we are not
doing it for the wrong reasons; we are doing it for the right
reasons, shows. We are definitely a better band now than we
have ever been.
Jeb: Steve
is missed but Viv Campbell does a great job filling those big
shoes.
Phil: When
Viv joined the band, we discovered that he sung like a bird. On
record, you can get away with that, as we had Mutt [Lange]
singing with us, who is one of the best singers that I have ever
heard. But live, we never had that. When Viv joined we had
this extra dimension. When he joined, we really stepped it up,
vocally. Ronnie James Dio didn’t let him sing, and he didn’t
really sing in Whitesnake, but when he joined Def Leppard he
wanted to sing, and we found out he had a great voice and we
stepped the whole thing up a notch.
Jeb: You
don’t want to just regurgitate the album, but you need to have
the key, signature moments of the song, both musically and
vocally, when you play live.
Phil: I
agree. We really have it all now with Viv in the band. It is a
shock to me that we are still doing this. When someone comes up
to me and gets really excited about the show we just played...
it doesn’t suck. Actually, it is great.
Jeb: Going
way back for a moment, what happened to get you into Def Leppard?
Phil: It
was a lot of luck, actually. It was also a lot of work. Simon
Laffy, who was in Girl, is also in Man Raze. I bumped into the
guys in Def Leppard when I was in Girl. They really had a
battle plan as musicians and I liked that. When I joined, we
were playing in theaters and we were opening up for people.
When the record came out [Pyromania], it just took off.
It is a different scene now, but back then, it is how it
happened.
Jeb: I
never listened to Girl. From the name, I am guessing you were a
glam band?
Phil: If
you could imagine a cross between Aerosmith and the New York
Dolls, then that was Girl, although we were not that good as
musicians back then. It was post Punk, but it wasn’t Punk
because everyone had long hair. It was a quirky and interesting
band. I think if we had been able to have a great producer, or
a mentor, then we might have been able to do something with that
band, but it just never happened.
Jeb: Do you
feel that you had to give up some of that when you joined Def
Leppard?
Phil: No,
not even slightly, actually. When I joined Def Leppard everyone
was asking me, “How come you have a short haircut? Are you a
Punk?” I was like, “Fuck you. This is me and I will look how I
want.” I certainly brought to Def Leppard my own
individuality. The whole bummer is when everyone copies
everyone else, and it becomes a trend. This was definitely
against the grain, as far as that goes.
Jeb: Steve
was a little bit of a sloppy guitar player. He was more of a
Jimmy Page type player. You are very precise.
Phil: Have
you been on my website?
Jeb: No, I
haven’t.
Phil: There
is a bio where Steve confesses that his favorite guitar player
was Jimmy Page. It mentions Steve and playing sloppy, and this
is self-confessed by Steve, and he took that as a compliment.
People would write in and be all upset because it says that he
was a sloppy player. They don’t understand what he was trying
to say. First, he was my best friend, and secondly, he would
have really appreciated that because that was his favorite
player and that is who he wanted to be like.
Jeb: You’re
technically proficient. You know what you are doing.
Phil: Not
really. I don’t read music. Some of the stuff I used to listen
to would be really whacked out. I listened to John McLaughlin,
Joe Pass and Larry Carlton. I was fortunate to see them play
live and figure out how they were doing all of that. However, I
was still a rock player. The thing was, that I just crossed
over. Hendrix is my favorite player because I love the fire in
his playing. I love Eddie Van Halen for the same reason.
What tends
to happen, when you get better as a guitar player, is that you
start getting more technical and you lose that flame and you get
boring. It is very rare to be able to have both qualities.
Steve Stevens, from Billy Idol, has both. He has the firepower
and he has the technique. I love watching him play. When I am
watching him play I just go, “Shit.” Usually, when people get
that good, the firepower, the youth, the innocence and the ‘fuck
you-ness’ disappear. He has it all.
I was
writing some songs with a friend of mine, and one of the parts
was a finger picking part. I had never done that before and I
sucked at it. He ended up playing the part on a keyboard. I
just couldn’t do it. I didn’t have the motivation to do that.
My motivation is to make it scream. I think that is why I still
have the fire. I also love Slash’s playing.
Jeb: Viv
does not show off enough. He can play with a ton of fire.
Phil: He
lays back a lot. You have to push him to get him to do that; I
don’t know what that is all about.
Jeb: He
really ripped it on his solo album. He once told me that he
thought DIO was some of his worst playing. I was like, “If that
is your worst playing then I hate you.”
Phil: I
think he didn’t enjoy it and that was the problem he has with
it. With any instrument, you have to get to the point where you
are happy. It was like the finger picking thing that I tried to
do. I don’t really want to be a Country player. I use a metal
pick and I really like to dig into it when I play. I want to be
a rock player.
Jeb: You
play with a metal pick? Where did you pick that up?
Phil:
Actually, it was an English guy, who used to play in a Japanese
glam band, who first gave me a metal pick. We went to Hong Kong
and I met this session player who gave me a brass guitar pick.
I loved it, and eventually, I lost it. I just couldn’t go back
because I liked the presence it gave the strings. You can hit
hard with it. I am using very heavy strings; I am up to .13 to
.56 now. You can dig in with this pick and you get a real
attack with it, which I think is very nice.
Jeb: Did
you help design some ergonomically correct guitars?
Phil: I did
help design some guitars, but it was not because they were
ergonomic, it was because they looked cool. The original Phil
Collen model was a Jackson that had a really weird shape that
fit around your body. It sounded great, but it was a bit
awkward to play, balance wise. I still have got some. I might
have to bring it out this tour. Then there was the PC1, which
is my favorite guitar in the world. The best guitar I have ever
played is actually in England. I will be picking it up when we
do Donnington. It is a PC1 Jackson and it is a real hot rod.
It has a titanium block in it, which really helps and changes
the sound. It has DiMarzio pickups in it, which help the
sustain. I really like fat necks, which help the tone,
actually. It makes the tone fatter and bigger, if you can get
around that. I use heavy strings and I really dig into it and
attack it.
Jeb: When
you talk about fat necks and thick strings, as a guitar player I
just see myself cramping up after an hour of playing. Do you
have big fingers?
Phil: My
fingers are not particularly big, but I just like the way it
feels. It is like an aggressive weapon or something.
Jeb: The
last one I have is this: Did you really record with Donny
Osmond?
Phil: I
played a solo for him and I sang some vocals. We are a day
apart, I am one day older than him. He used to live near me,
just up the road. I have to say that he is a really cool guy.
Our old lighting guy had been out on tour with him. When I
moved into the area he said, “You should hook up with Donny as
he just lives down the road from you.” I met him and he told me
that he was going to be doing an album and he asked me to play
on it. This was all before I got my green card, so I couldn’t
put my name on it. I really wish it would have said ‘Phil
Collen’ on the record because it was really an incredible
experience and he is really cool guy.
Jeb: The
credit was to your son, wasn’t it?
Phil: He is
nineteen now and he got all the credit. I would rather it said
my name on it [laughter].
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