By Jeb Wright
Photo by David Carstens

This year, Kansas is celebrating their 35^th Anniversary, however, another band, featuring fourfifths of the current lineup, will be making their CD debut on June 23^rd. Native Window, featuring guitarist Rich Williams, violinist/guitarist David Ragsdale, bass player and lead vocalist Billy Greer and drummer Phil Ehart, will also be opening for Kansas in Joplin, Missouri on June 13^th.

Native Window was born out of circumstance and a desire to create new music. There is no easy way to explain the Kansas musical situation. There are legalities, and arrangements, that must be met in order to create a new Kansas album. If things are not done according to design, then a new album will not happen. With the band’s chief songwriters, Kerry Livgren and Steve Walsh, both not wanting to write Kansas music, the rest of the band were left in limbo, until now.

Native Window is Kansas’ version of Hot Tuna, the side band created by members of Jefferson Airplane. Native Window doesn’t simply pick up where Kansas left off, musically, however. Native Window is a true band; a separate entity from Kansas. The music they composed can’t help but remind one of Kansas, in places, however, it is surprising just how different, and fresh, Native Window sounds. Songs like "Blood in the Water" show a heavy side to the band, while "Money" shows how the band can mix a Kansas influence with their own creative vison.

Look for the band to release their self-titled debut on June 23^rd and appear on the nationally syndicated radio show, Rockline, the following day. The album, released by Jeff Glixman’s StarCity Recording Company, is sure to be a huge hit among both the Kansas faithful and all fans of melodic rock. Glixman is no stranger to the band. Jeff produced the classic Kansas albums Song For America, Masque, Leftoverture and Point of Know Return, making him the perfect man for the Native Window project.

Classic Rock Revisited caught up with Rich Williams and David Ragsdale in the band’s trailer in Wichita, Kansas, before playing a gig in front of their home state fans. We discussed the formation of Native Window, and how the band informed Kansas vocalist, Steve Walsh, about their intentions to go forward with the project. We also talked about the upcoming Kansas DVD, No Place Like Home, and how Ragsdale found his way into, out of, and back into the band. Read on to discover the meaning behind the infamous band tattoos and why Rich Williams is considered to be the testicles of Kansas.

David: Well, hell yeah.

Rich: We are the important guys; we deal with the music part.

Rich: It really started with a ‘what if’ scenario. It was actually before David came back into the band. Billy [Greer], Phil [Ehart] and I said, "What if we put together our own opening act?" We were saying that jokingly because most of where we were playing, there were local bands who were the opening act. It started there and, over time, we got more serious about it. We finally thought, "What if we wrote our own material?" The next question that came up was, "What if we recorded it?" We knew we could open for ourselves if our music was any good. The idea that started as ‘what if’ went full circle and turned into a band, who is now going to open for Kansas.

David: The way it came about, from my remembrance, is that we did a gig in South Padre, and we heard that at the same time, Buffalo, New York had gotten three feet of snow. I remember we all thought that ‘Three Feet of Snow’ would be a great name for a band. One day, Phil called me up and said, "What if we actually did this? What would you think about that?" We all chatted and said, "Why not?" We were not doing anything else, other than all the stuff that we actually do.

Rich: What have we got to lose? If we go out and fall flat on our face, then we still have our day gig with Kansas.

David: It is not a big gamble; it is just a lot of fun.

Rich: Singing with Native Window will give Billy a lot more exposure than he had in his other band, Seventh Key.

David: Billy is a great singer, technically, but he also has got that ‘Voice of God’ where you know it is him. He has a very unique quality, vocally.

Rich: Billy sings in a very high voice in Kansas, as he is singing above Steve. Native Window gives Billy a chance to show what he can do in a lower register.

Rich: That was always the intention. We already do Kansas and we didn’t want to be confused with Kansas. From the beginning, we were not sure what it was going to be, but we knew it was not going to be Kansas.

Rich: When we fly to gigs, Atlanta is the hub. Billy flies in from Jacksonville and we fly out from Atlanta. When we came back, Billy would just stay for the weekend, and then go back a couple of days later. We were able to work together and keep costs down. We were not in a big hurry because we didn’t have to be done any time soon. Once we got a label, then we had to pick it up, as management and record companies put fire under you and speed it up a lot. We started off playing some outside songs, acoustically. It was really Billy playing an acoustic bass, David playing a violin or mandolin, me on acoustic guitar and Phil beating on a drum stool with some drum sticks.

David: We gave each song The Campfire Treatment. If you can make a song sound good under those circumstances, then you are going to make it sound really good when you are doing what you do. That was the test that we put every tune through.

Rich: I thought it was going to be a lot more acoustic, in the beginning. When we put the drum kit behind it then it seemed to grow. It still has a lot of acoustic flavor, and a couple of songs are strictly acoustic. I think that shows that we really didn’t know what this was going to be when we started out.

David: Rich, Phil and Billy are always creative, whether they write a tune or not. They write their parts, which I consider an intellectual contribution.

Rich: We started out saying, "This is a band. We are going to do this Van Halen style. There are four of us and everything that comes in is going to be split four ways." In versions of Kansas, things were set up a bit differently. If somebody came in with a song, it was all theirs. At a certain percentage, it slowly trickled down as an arraignment fee to the others. You really didn’t get much of a percentage of it. When Steve Morse joined the band, it was all Steve and Steve and we just played along. There were a lot of parts that were added to the songs, but we were told, "That was not part of the deal." It tends to leave a sour taste in your mouth. In Native Window, we said, "Screw all of that. This is a band." This sort of situation really inspires inspiration.

David: Anybody who has an idea will get that idea tried. There are some situations where someone will present and idea and people go, "I don’t know . . . " In this situation, we will try it. The ironic thing is that a lot of the ideas that you normally would not have tried end up being really good ideas.

Rich: Since we were not working within the Kansas box anymore, we were free to really take things out and try a lot of different musical ideas. We were able to watch them really begin to turn into something special. Inside Kansas, we wouldn’t have even approached it because it just didn’t fit us. It was really kind of hard to break that mold. It was hard to wear another hat.

Rich: That is what is was.

David: First and foremost, we wanted to make sure we had fun. We didn’t want any wrangling and we didn’t want any clicks. We just wanted to have a good time and we did.

Rich: There was no arguing over percentages. There was no one going, "This is mine." There was no one going, "If you are going to put that part in there then that is my part and I want credit." There was no bias when it came to percentages and money.

Rich: Some things were written out note-for-note, some were skeleton and some were suggestion. Kansas songs were really any variation of that. When ideas were brought in, it would be like, "Oh that sucks." There was no discussion of speeding it up, slowing it down, or adding a middle to it. Very few Kansas songs were verbatim. There was a lot of arranging going on throughout all of that. I think that is really why Kerry and Steve, now, prefer to do solo stuff. Having an editor can be very painful. Here is your baby, and here come the butchers to cut off his fingers and toes. However, when that happens, it is usually for the best. Teamwork always prevails over doing it one guys way who says, "It is my way and I don’t want you to fuck with it." Teamwork always works best.

Rich: Who knows? Financially, it would have leveled the playing field. It was just the way it was all done back then. I don’t begrudge anybody for what they got, but I just believe things work better when it is a team.

David: It took me about fifteen minutes to come back. I had just put out a solo album and I wanted to see what else was out there.

Rich: He lived seven years in a bus.

David: That actually had a lot to do with it.

Rich: That was the Kansas bus tour when we would be in Lincoln, Nebraska, playing in a club one day, and then on other side of the country the next. If we ever paid dues, it was when David was first in the band. It was much more rough than when we were starting out playing in bars with Kansas. Back then, it was fun, but living on the bus for seven years was tiring. It was hard duty.

David: I chased them around for about four years. The band had just released Power with Steve Morse. You had all of Steve’s Dregs influences, and all the Kansas influences, but you had no violin in the band. I was like, "You can’t be serious?" I had a little four-track cassette deck and I wrote violin parts for four of the tracks and bumped it all down. I managed to get a copy of it to Phil, who liked it, but wasn’t about to change the chemistry of the band just because I made an interesting sales pitch. Anytime I would record anything of significance, then I would send it to Phil. I had his number, so every six months, I would call him and talk. I let him know I was still around.

Rich: After in the Spirit of Things came out, that band dissolved. MCA didn’t put any money behind the album and Morse moved on. It was time to regroup.

David: [laughter] It can be a nerve-wracking instrument; it can be devastating. If you get nervous then you are done. You can’t control anything. With guitar, you can get nervous and stumble around a little bit and overcome it, but with violin, every bit of command goes out the door.

In 1991, Kerry showed up with two songs. I was living out in LA at the time. Phil called me up one morning . . .He and I had not spoken for months. He told me that Kerry had brought in two new songs and they wondered if I would like to come out and demo the songs with them. They flew me to Atlanta and we demoed the two songs. In that period of time, Phil decided to put the tour together that is still active today. Kerry was actually in that band, but he soon left. Once Kerry left, Morse came back for nine months. We did "Dust in the Wind" together on violin every night. It is really fun to watch him play violin.

David: We did a show in my hometown back in 1991, very early in my first tenure with Kansas. I can imagine what it was like from their perspective to go to my town where I am returning with a hero rock band. Going to Topeka was a big deal. We were working the entire time we were there. We came in and rehearsed with the symphony and we had a three-hour Meet & Greet. It is really different when you play with an orchestra, because you can’t just do your part and relax; you have to interact. We had dress rehearsal the night before and then the show.

David: They were so excited. They thought it was the coolest thing. I came from the whole classical thing and I left because of the whole orchestral mentality. It is very tedious. Within three years, I realized it was not where I wanted to spend the rest of my life. The Washburn kids were so happy and excited that it just rubbed off on everybody.

Rich: We knew that if there was a problem that night then we would stop and restart it. It is a very unnatural feeling. A musician does not stop the song, no matter what. You can have one string left and be hopping on one leg but you do not stop. It is really hard to do. In rehearsals, it is no big deal, but when you play in front of an audience it is different.

When we did the very first Don Kirshner’s Rock Concert, the Eagles were on there too. They would be playing along and then go, "Stop, stop, stop." And then they would all start talking to each other. It was so painful to watch; I couldn’t believe it. The fact was that they were not playing to an audience; they were playing to the camera. I have always remembered that. Don’t worry about the embarrassment in the small room because that is in the moment. When you play on tape, it is going to be there forever, so stop and start over and fix whatever went wrong. It doesn’t really make it any easier, but at least it shows there is a method to the madness.

Jeb: David will be too humble if I ask him this question, so I will ask you. Does David make the band better?

Rich: David makes the band better and he brings everyone’s game up. I think he is the best musician in the band. He has the most training, his practices more and he plays more. He plays an instrument that is very hard to play. He raised the bar up a bit.

David: I am blushing.

David: That is because he doesn’t have to.

Rich: If I could do what Yngwie does then I would. The truth is that few can. To take a simple Stratocaster, a Marshall amp and a fuzz box and do what he does is amazing. He has been doing that since he was 16. When he was young, he practiced constantly. It sounds cocky but he told me, "It is impossible for me to make a mistake. I have played every scale, in every position, so many times that a mistake is impossible." It is a bit of showboating but who is a better player?

David: Rich brings tone and soul to the band. Nobody sounds like Rich Williams. Rich is the heart.

Rich: And the nuts.

David: Rich is the testicles of the band [laughter].

Rich: Dave and I have some cool moments in Native Window. We do some question and answer runs and we do some playing together. The guitar and violin compliment each other so much that they kind of create a third instrument.

David: They have very interesting conversations.

Rich: When we decided to really go forward with Native Window, Phil said, "I need to tell Steve about this." Phil went and talked to Steve and told him what we were doing. Steve said, "I really have no interest to be a part of a project like that." Phil said, "Steve, you don’t understand. We are not asking you to be a part of it. We are telling you that we are going to do it." He is really fine with it. Let’s face it, anything that points a positive finger towards Kansas is good for Steve. He is not interested in doing anything like this at the moment, but he is okay with us doing it.

David: He understands as a writer. He sees that there are four guys who want to do something. He does not want to do it. He harbors no ill will.

Rich: We are kind of the Hot Tuna of Kansas. Was Grace Slick pissed off about Hot Tuna? I have never heard she was.

Rich: We were all thinking about going to dental college, so we had a molar tattooed on our arms. We met on the steps of the dental college and we discovered that we all played a musical instrument, so we started a secret society instead.

Okay, the truth is that we were staying at the Hyatt in Los Angeles, which was known as The Riot House because of the all the crazy shit that happened there with rock bands. It was right across the street from Lyle Tuttle’s tattoo shop. We were in LA recording Song For America and we had been discussing getting a band tattoo; the Allman Brothers had one, and we thought we should have one too. We went over there and looked on the wall and this was the cheapest one that they had. We didn’t have any money, so we were looking at the fifteen and twenty dollar tattoos, and this was the less of the two evils. Kerry wouldn’t do it, of course, but the rest of us, and the road crew, all did.

We drew straws and Robby went first. Robby got in the chair and the needle hit him and he turned tombstone gray. I was next. I was watching him do this and I was going to have to do it next. It looked like torture. They had to start and stop and start and stop. When he was finally done, I got in the chair and they did the tattoo and I got up and said, "You pussy." It was only slightly uncomfortable. The next day, Robby goes in and gets his colored in. It is not a tooth. It is a dove. I actually have the tattoo on one of my guitars. There are no fret markers on that guitar except for the dove on the twelfth fret. I will take you up on stage and show it to you when we are done.

I actually have one story that is even better than the tattoo story. We were being flown into New York for a press junket. We flew in and went to get our rental car. There was an attractive young lady behind the desk. I just happened to be reading an article on the flight about this medical procedure that was being invented. She looked at our arms and saw our tattoos and asked, "What is that?" I told her that we were in town to speak at a medical convention. I said, "We have invented this nylon mesh to reline the walls of the uterus." She looked at us and said, "I am getting off in about fifteen minutes. Can I party with you guys?" It just goes to show that the bigger the line of shit you throw at a woman, the more she will believe it.